Sacred Sexuality and Cervical Orgasms with Dr. Willow Brown and Leah Piper

Susan Taylor, MA (: 00:01

Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of Sex Talk Cafe. My guests today, I am very excited to introduce Leah Piper and Dr. Willow Brown. They are the masterminds behind the Sex Reimagined podcast, which opens the minds and hearts of its listeners to the vast possibilities that exist within the realm of sexuality, spirituality, and relationships. With a combined 40 years of professional experience in the sex and intimacy space, these two ambassadors of love are ready to support you on your journey.

with sacred sexuality in all that it encompasses. Thank you so much for joining me today on the Sex Talk Cafe, Leah and Dr. Willow.

Leah (: 00:36

Thanks for having us.

Dr. Willow (: 00:36

Thank you for having us.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 00:37

Yeah,

well I cannot wait to dive in. There are just some really awesome topics here that I think we're gonna get into today. So before I jump in on that, maybe just a real brief background about you and why you love this work and how you got into it. If we could just kind of hear a little bit about that, it'd be great for our listeners.

Leah (: 00:57

Sure.

I'll jump in first. You know, I grew up in a couple different interesting religious ways. First 10 years was Pentecostal, born again, Jesus. And then the next six years was Catholicism. I got baptized in the Catholic Church and had to go to Catholic school. So my conditioning foundation was very interesting spiritually, different poles. And then

in that where sexuality lives, lot of shame, guilt, fear, repression. And during that time, I also had sexual abuse. So coming of age as a sexual person who is just as horny as everybody else, but then also had all this good girl, my God, don't get pregnant, you'll ruin the family. All these things was like sort of a part of the foundation of where I came from. And

I had to undo a lot of that. And in the desire to undo some of that and being rebellious and needing to individuate from my parents, I discovered that there was something missing in sex, and that was this connection to spirit. That there was this deep soulful part of myself that wanted to swim in the deep end in sex too.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 02:09

you

Leah (: 02:15

but I didn't have a model for it. And that led me to reading some really interesting books. The most important one was a book called Tantra, The Outer Conscious Loving, and it opened up everything. was like, finally there was a place of wholeness that I could become congruent with, and it gave me the answers to heal all the stuff having to do with the sexual abuse.

And to go to these ascended places, these transcendent places in lovemaking that was just providing the kind of orgasms that none of my friends were having and gave me an experience of love that felt so profound, I decided everyone needs to know about this. And that kind of began my journey.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 03:01

that's so beautiful. Wow, and what about you, Dr. Willow? Let's hear your story.

Dr. Willow (: 03:05

Well, I also grew up in a religious family, household, big Catholic family. My grandparents had 15 children, so they really didn't believe in birth control. Very Catholic. And so I was actually really blessed. had a really sweet childhood and didn't suffer from any traumas sexually until I was 19.

Leah (: 03:15

Very Catholic.

Dr. Willow (: 03:30

at which point I was raped, I got pregnant and it was a shit show. And so that was kind of my big trauma that set me on the sexual healing path. It actually just set me on the healing path and I became a healer extraordinaire. You know, if there's a healing modality out there, I have either studied it deeply or dabbled in it a little bit. so once I got on the healing path, just, I really wanted to

Susan Taylor, MA (: 03:46

No.

Dr. Willow (: 03:58

I was like, God, sexual education is bullshit. We didn't learn anything. Like, I don't even barely remember what we did, you know? And so I was like, I'm going to reform sexual education. You know, I was 19 or 20 or something. And I started going into the juvenile halls and doing talks to the kids in there and talking about what rape really is. It's not always this jumping out of the bushes with a knife at your throat. You know, it can be this more gray thing.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 04:05

you

wow.

Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 04:27

know, Rufinal and all these different things that I had experienced. Like I talked about all of those to the kids and it really was cool because it opened their eyes in a lot of ways. Like a lot of the girls would come up to me and be like, well then I've been raped too, you know? So I started talking to a lot of just people my age about it. And then I would say, you know, time went by and I went on and I...

Susan Taylor, MA (: 04:29

Mm hmm. Wow.

Dr. Willow (: 04:53

kept doing healing work and I got my masters in Chinese medicine. And even during Chinese medicine school, was like, boy, they just gloss over sexuality in this curriculum, four years. And we're talking like, here's one sentence on Jingchi, which is sexual chi. And I was like, I know there's more. And I had been studying with Montauk and studying Qigong for many years already, even before I went to school. Montauk Chia, who's kind of the.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 05:02

Sure.

Dr. Willow (: 05:20

grandfather of Taoist sexology. so, so yeah, after school I was like, you know, it's, it's a passion. It's something I feel is lacking in the world. I feel like I want to teach women about their bodies and teach men how to love women's bodies better. And so I just.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 05:35

you

Dr. Willow (: 05:40

kind of started teaching Taoist sexual practices in my living room one day and here we are however many years later. I don't keep good timelines. Leah's always like, how long ago was that? I'm like, I don't know, honey. She's the timeline keeper. And so yeah, it's been a great journey. And then Leah and I came together. I started jumping into the tantra scene and tantra education as well with Source Tantra.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 05:52

you

Meow.

Dr. Willow (: 06:08

who is Charles Meir, who is the author of the book that she just mentioned. Yep. And so that's where I discovered Leah Piper, the one and only, and she was up on stage teaching with Charles and like every time she would talk, I would be like, my God, she and I really need to like teach together because she's got this deep base of tantra and I've got this deep base of Taoism and there's such a synergy and there's such a connection between them. So.

Leah (: 06:12

The original book.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 06:14

I'll go.

Yes, for sure.

Dr. Willow (: 06:36

They're one and the same. So it's been so fun doing this work together.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 06:38

Yeah,

yeah. Well, so what we're speaking of, the tantra and Taoist sexology is really, I mean, these are spiritual, sacred sexuality approaches, approaches to sex that involves spiritual aspects. And for our listeners, I really would love to hear how the two of you would define sacred sexuality, because I think there's a lot of questions around that people don't really know, like, what is sacred sexuality? What does that actually mean? I would love to get your take on that.

Leah (: 07:05

Yeah, I'll kind of start. You know, one of the things that propelled me into looking at sex differently was because deep down, and I think a lot of people feel this way, they know there's something more to sex, but they have no idea what it is and where to go for it. They just know something's missing. There's a lack of fulfillment. Sometimes it feels like just empty calories or it's not.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 07:27

Yeah.

Leah (: 07:32

fulfilling and it feels like it's so separate.

from other sectors of their life. Like it's missing some kind of richness. And because we haven't had a good model for God in the bedroom, there's been so much disconnection from how do you even invite God into the bedroom? And when you live in a Judeo-Christian predominant culture, you know, especially from a Christian standpoint, and I love my Jesus lover, so this isn't anything wrong with Christianity other than to say there's no role models for

or the divine lovership, for holy relationship, for people who are taking a look at partnership and wanting to spiritualize it. And what's so unique about sexual relationships is the sex part. So, I mean, that's the only relation, all of our other relationships do not include sex. And yet we have these ones that do. Why are we leaving out a whole part of our life that feels rich to us?

Susan Taylor, MA (: 08:15

Yeah.

figure.

Yeah.

Leah (: 08:35

So tantra ended at oftentimes ends up being an answer to that question. There's got to be something more and how it provides context for that is it gives people.

rituals. So you're taking the ordinary and you're making it extraordinary. That's all ritual does. So it's bringing in elements of intentionality. It's bringing in elements that increases intimacy, like breathing together, calming the nervous system, its eye contact.

bringing in that kind of soul to soul connection and it's teaching people how to deepen and have a soul to soul connection. In addition to what I would call presencing skills or intimacy skills, it then gives you practices and skills to make you good at sex. How do we become a master toucher?

How do we turn somebody's body on? How do we create sexual tension and anticipation? How do we invite vulnerability so that what you're doing with your body isn't just friction, it's a prayer?

Susan Taylor, MA (: 09:44

you

Leah (: 09:45

And that opens

up the heart to have these really meaningful, my God, we're going to places we didn't even know was possible. So if you want a richer sex life that is more profound, has more meaning, and you quadruple the pleasure that you're capable of, then this is something to look into. And a lot of people don't think about making sex an art form, but that's exactly its potential.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 10:09

Right, yeah.

That's so beautifully said and I think you're right. Like at least in the mainstream, what I like to speak to is the mainstream religious narratives because if we look to the mystical.

traditions even in the West, which we do have, such as Gnostic, Sophia Gnosticism for example, which is centered around Mary Magdalene as the beloved of Christ. We do have that example of the Holy Matrimony, the Holy Union between the male and female awakened beings, which is such a very beautiful role model for us. I mean, the story is our story, and it's the story of the love that we seek to experience with a beloved is.

that same love made manifest through that particular story. So I always just like to throw that in there. do have our own.

Leah (: 10:53

I

love that you did because there's a whole part of, in every religious construct, there is the mystical aspects of those traditions. They're just not as well known. They're not taught. They're not typically a part of our conditioning or former generations. So it is so important that you brought that piece up because that gives another avenue for people to relate to that connection. Yeah.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 11:10

No, you're absolutely right.

Yes, and to invite it in, where we haven't

killed off the feminine principle, you know, like has happened in so much mainstream religion, and I could go on for hours about this, that's not like the focus of today, but go ahead, go ahead, Dr. Willow.

Dr. Willow (: 11:27

Yeah, and I was just gonna say,

Leah (: 11:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 11:33

I think that, you know, it hasn't become so well known because there's so much power in it. And everyone is a little bit trepidatious to open that level of power within themselves because it's unknown, it's unfamiliar, there's not a lot of role models in our society for it.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 11:45

Mmm, sure.

Dr. Willow (: 11:52

And when you do really open that Shakti within yourself and experience it, can feel destabilizing basically. And it can also feel really profound and amazing. And so you just start to find your footing within it and a whole new life opens up for you.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 12:01

Yeah.

Yeah, well on that note, let's talk about something that I think is not well understood, generally speaking, but can be absolutely profound and game changing, cervical orgasms in women. Let's talk about this in the lines of spiritual and expansive and yeah, cervical orgasms.

Dr. Willow (: 12:23

Mmm, one of my favorite topics. Yeah.

Cervical orgasms are so great. I could use to have one. It's time to have another one. So there's basically four nerve pathways that travel up to your brain when you have an orgasm. And there's one for the clitoris that we're all very familiar with. That's the pedendal nerve. And then we've got one.

Leah (: 12:35

Yeah.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 12:37

you

Dr. Willow (: 12:53

For the anus, that's the hypogastric nerve, which travels up to the brain. So anal orgasms are a whole nother topic and amazing experience. And then the pelvic nerve, which is more like the G-spot area. And then it's the vagus nerve that travels up from the cervical orgasm. And the vagus nerve is the vagus, the vagrant, the wandering nerve. So it's the one that

Susan Taylor, MA (: 13:20

Hmm.

Dr. Willow (: 13:22

10th cranial nerve that travels all the way, actually travels down from the head, whichever direction you want to call it, and it travels through the throat, it travels through the heart, it travels through the enteric brain, which is your gut, and then right down into womb and cervix, where it actually doesn't go all the way down to hit the cervix, but other branches that connect to it go down. So you can think of it like this tree. So when you're having a cervical orgasm, it's like this whole tree.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 13:32

Mmm.

Mm.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 13:50

life

force network of energy flows up through your body and into your brain. that vagus nerve, like if you've ever had a crygasm before, that's the vagus nerve, like igniting, because it carries all this emotion. And in Chinese medicine, we've got the yang channel running up the spine and the yin channel running down the front midline of the body. So the yin, or the more receptive

Susan Taylor, MA (: 14:02

yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Willow (: 14:19

vessel in your body, the most receptive channel in your system runs right along that vagal nerve pathway. So there's this beautiful thing that happens when you have a cervical orgasm where your receptive capacity expands and it's like you can just receive these incredible downloads, these incredible sensations, these incredible experiences.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 14:26

Wow.

you

Dr. Willow (: 14:44

that are above and beyond anything. And in the Tao, call, anytime we bring orgasmic energy to different places in the body, which we can train ourselves to do, we can bring it to the adrenal glands, we can bring it to the pineal gland, we can bring it to the thyroid, the throat chakra. So even we could bring it to a joint, like a shoulder or a knee or something. And so when we draw this, when we have these,

different gland or organgasms, then we call them superior orgasms. And so the cervical orgasm, of course the cervix is attached, it's the bottom part of the womb. So it's said that the wombgasm is the highest form of a superior orgasm that any body could have. So men's equivalent to that would be a heartgasm.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 15:20

you

Yeah.

Leah (: 15:40

Yeah, if I can just add a little bit more, what's also amazing and fascinating about the cervix, not only does it have access to that vagus nerve, but the hypogastric nerve runs through it and so does the pelvic nerve. So you've got three major orgasmic nerve pathways running through the cervix. Now keep in mind that every single nerve is a different type of pleasure.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 15:43

Sure.

Wow.

Leah (: 16:07

It feels slightly different than the other ones. So the profundity of having these three nerves be activated and in order for them to be activated for most women is...

Susan Taylor, MA (: 16:18

Mm-hmm.

Leah (: 16:20

It's a light touch. It's a stillness. It requires a level of sensitivity and stillness that people have to learn to have a capacity for. Because most cervixes are just used, are familiar with being banged into, yeah, which doesn't typically feel good. That's when we sort of flinch back and it's like we're kind of enduring it. So we need a different approach in order to awaken the cervical orgasm.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 16:22

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Right? Sure.

Yeah. Pound that pussy.

Yeah.

Right.

Leah (: 16:49

come a point where the cervix actually can have more intensity, but in order for it to wake up and in the beginning in the earlier stages, you want slow, highly present connection. If you're with a partner, it's like so almost myopic in its stillness. It's like really micro micro movements, little thumping.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 16:59

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right. Very gentle.

Dr. Willow (: 17:07

Almost no movement. Yeah.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 17:10

Yeah.

Yeah.

Leah (: 17:17

And so for two people to be that still when they're having sex, takes letting go of some anxiety, especially if you're having sex with a man with a penis, with penis owners, because of the fraction that they're typically used to. Being that still can be scary because they're afraid they're going to lose their erection. So there's some nuances to the cervical orgasm that require skill.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 17:26

Right.

Right.

Right.

Yeah,

well, I just love the way you both describe that because you really brought in some of the physiological aspects of what is actually happening during a cervical orgasm. It's related to nerves and there's three nerves that are running through there that have different aspects of pleasure and I love that. That really makes it tangible. also, this is so enlightening too because I've often said, know, like crying is a pathway into orgasm and specifically when I've experienced cervical orgasms, a lot of time it's through that deep release and that heart opening.

that happens in surrendering and then the tears will come and then it's just this big, huge opening. My question for you is on the woman's side, she who has this cervix, what would you say, I just would love to hear your perspective on this, the role of her emotions in and her relationship with her emotions and her ability to, what I would say, like surrender into a cervical orgasm, because I feel like the pathway to a cervical orgasm, it's a slightly different pathway. I feel that...

requires a little bit more of an embrace of some intensity of feeling in the body, but also just a deep sort of surrender and expansive opening. I want to get your take on that, the role of her emotions, what's her pathway if she wants to cultivate this for herself?

Dr. Willow (: 18:58

Yeah, there has to be a deep level of trust, you know, there has to be a deep level of trust with herself and also with her partner. We always say the three pillars to intimacy are trust, vulnerability and presence.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 19:00

Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 19:10

And so if you really have that deep level of trust inside of yourself and then you can trust your partner, there also needs to be high levels of arousal. I mean, there doesn't need to be, often there is these. So to be in that deep level of stillness and also aroused at the same time is usually an unusual sexual experience, but something to build your system toward. so, you know, I think when you are in that

Susan Taylor, MA (: 19:21

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Willow (: 19:39

deep state of trust and that deep state of intimacy. And you're just right there with that moment where it's almost like the head of the penis or if you're using a wander vibrator that can work too. The cervix almost like opens up around it. It really reminds it's the total chalice in the blade moment, you know, where the chalice opens up and starts to swallow the tip of the blade and or the, or the aurora bolialis, you know, where the snake is,

Susan Taylor, MA (: 19:55

Yeah.

Mmm.

Dr. Willow (: 20:08

is eating its own tail. It's that perfect divine union of haroskamos where two energies are coming together, yin and yang energies. I don't want to say masculine and feminine because it doesn't have to be male and female, but these two yin and yang energies are awakening each other. And that's why it's such a cosmic experience because all of a sudden when yin and yang merge and become one like that,

Susan Taylor, MA (: 20:11

Mmm.

Right.

Dr. Willow (: 20:33

you're in non-duality, like you're in the field of oneness, you're in the field of all possibility where anything could happen. it's just such a, it's this natural essence and this natural state within all of us that gets shrouded with doubt and fear and shame and guilt and uncertainty.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 20:34

Hmm.

Yeah.

Sorry.

Leah (: 20:55

Mm.

Dr. Willow (: 20:55

And

so in that moment, all of that shit gets lifted and we just get to be in the pureness, in the rawness of our truest, deepest essence as human beings.

Leah (: 21:07

Yeah, if I could just add just a teeny bit to that, so beautifully said Willow, there takes a certain amount of courage and a willingness. You got to get behind a willingness to be vulnerable, to be stripped down and really naked.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 21:20

Mm-hmm.

Leah (: 21:24

And that's scary. We have a lot of defenses that would cause us and tell us, no, stay protected. This is risky to let someone see that much of me, to have them see in this deep lovemaking, the parts of myself that I don't like, that I think are ugly, that might not be worthy or lovable. And you can't escape if you're going to go to those deep realms and there's something about the cervix.

and the power of the womb and everything it carries for women, when that is touched with sensitivity and consciousness, things arise to be let go. So sometimes it can be so healing because when you've got that much love and presence and consciousness being poured into you, which these moments tend to naturally bring to the table, you can push out things that don't reflect the essence of love, that can feel that

Susan Taylor, MA (: 21:55

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Leah (: 22:19

that sense those tears of like.

you're really looking at me and you like what you see like here in my most nakedness because we think of the word woundable or wounding or I'm sorry vulnerable. Vulnerable translates to woundable which is why it's so hard. I'm opening up the deepest parts of my body to you and I'm hoping you don't run away. I'm hoping you like what you see because sometimes I don't like what I see when I'm that vulnerable. And so we're taking a big risk but what I've come to see the

Susan Taylor, MA (: 22:30

Mm.

Mmm.

Yuck.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Leah (: 22:52

of choosing to step into that vulnerability, you will find out from the people who you gift that to, that's when you're the most lovable, because that's when you are the most real. And that is like, it's beautiful when someone trusts you at that level and they're showing you that.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 23:02

Yeah.

real.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and I think that this cervical orgasmic pathway is, it feels different in the body for women who maybe have only experienced a clitoral orgasm. The pathway into a cervical, it's a different pathway. It's a different sensation altogether. So if you're out there looking for the same sensation as a clitoral orgasm, you're not gonna find it. You have to almost come to a completely blank slate and just have a new, surrender into the experience of

Dr. Willow (: 23:12

to.

Leah (: 23:24

animal.

Dr. Willow (: 23:33

It's different,

experience. Yeah.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 23:40

of the cervical aspect. What do you have to... Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 23:42

Yeah. There's a couple, couple more things I want to say about that is, one is there, they have scientifically found certain cells that are found only in the womb and in the heart. So,

there's a really strong correlation between your opening up the cervix in that way, having this reverberation of orgasmic energy rise up through the womb, it's gonna hit the heart. So that's part of why it feels so deep and a lot of times tears and emotion come from it. And the other thing I wanna say is, if you've had a hysterectomy of a full hysterectomy or partial,

Leah (: 24:12

emotional.

Dr. Willow (: 24:22

If you've had a leap procedure, if you've had Creo on your cervix, if you've had any thing done to your womb or your cervix, even if it's been removed, the energy of your womb is still there. So the energy of your cervix is still there. So sometimes we get clients come to us and they're like, but I've had a hysterectomy, so I won't be able to have a cervical orgasm. And it's not true. You still can have the experience.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 24:42

Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 24:50

really ignite that. Vegas nerve hasn't been removed. And so if you can really tune into the energy of that, and Chinese medicine really holds that as a high value. If you've had your gallbladder removed, there's still the energy of it there. And so just to keep that in mind for women who have had surgeries.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 24:51

Oof.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Leah (: 25:08

Yeah, you won't be left out. Yeah, yeah.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 25:09

that's awesome. You won't be left out.

Leah (: 25:11

You're no reason to feel bad that you're less than. In fact, I was liken it to a phantom limb. If someone has had a limb amputated, they can oftentimes still feel it. It's like, itch, itch, itch, scratch, scratch. Same thing can happen with any organs that get removed. The phantom energy is still very much alive.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 25:17

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, so one more thing on this topic and then I wanna move on to something else. Maybe you have heard, I'm sure you have heard this, that there are some teachers of sexuality out there, more of the Western sexology approaches that claim or propagate that all orgasms are just clitoral orgasms or vaginal because the clitoris has the legs that go into the tissues of the vagina.

I just cannot get on board with that because I don't think that's really what's going on down there. And I'm curious what your take is on that and how you might speak to that of what's going on with the G-spot cervical versus what actually is a clitoral or vaginal orgasm.

Leah (: 26:10

I couldn't agree with you more. And I think really that how can you argue with the fact that there are these four different pathways? And you know what? There's probably more than that that we just haven't named or discovered yet to create distinctions. That actually when I just anecdotally look at my body, I feel the difference.

those different nerve pathways when you are stimulating those different erogenous zones my clitoral orgasms have a peak and a valley my vaginal orgasms due to G spot or sacred spot massage feels so much different, know and because I have to teach this I can actually really Articulate it's like that vaginal orgasm is like an ascending spiraling It doesn't have a peak in a valley much easier to have multiple vaginal orgasms

than it is to have clitoral orgasms. And the clitoris is not actually attached to the tissue of the G-spot. That is the urethral sponge. Both of them are separate networks of erectile tissue. And then you have the perineum sponge that no one really talks about. That's a whole nother bundle of erectile tissue that's also connected to the hypogastric nerve. So.

And then the hypogastric nerve is also really interwoven with the anal cavity. So sometimes people are like, anal orgasms? Yes, anal orgasms. They are way different than a clitoral orgasm. And sometimes you need the help of the clitoris to turn on the experience of a G-spot orgasm or the experience of an anal orgasm. So they're all connected to each other in these very interesting ways. They feed energy.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 27:35

Ha

Leah (: 27:53

These erogenous zones that are separate can feed energy to each other, but they are different emotionally and energetically.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 28:03

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for that clarification and totally great. Dr. Willow, did you want to chime in on that before we move on to a new topic? Yes, that's awesome. Well, so we've talked a bit here about this awesome pathway in the female body with the cervical orgasm. Let's talk about men for a minute. So I know in the Taoist approaches to sexuality and tantra, there's this...

Dr. Willow (: 28:10

No, that was well said. Complete.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 28:28

conversation around men's sexual mastery and can we just kind of touch on that? Like what does that mean and what is that?

Dr. Willow (: 28:35

Yeah, I know it's so fun. It's so fun to teach. I love teaching men, young men, old men, but especially young men. I feel like I'm giving them ice cream for the first time when they discover what's possible. Wow, my whole body could feel like my cock. my God, amazing. know, it's just such a delight.

Leah (: 28:35

my God, it's so exciting.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 28:38

you

Ha ha

Dr. Willow (: 28:54

You know, think one of the, I interviewed Charles, the whole reason I found Leah was because I ran a summit and I interviewed Charles Meir and one of the things he said on that first interview with me was so poignant. was like, what advice would you have for young men or for all men? He's like, slow down, know, number one, slow down. And I can't tell you how often I'm giving that advice to men. I'm telling them, slow down about half as much as you're going right now.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 29:12

Ha ha ha!

Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 29:21

and then slow down 10 times more, you know, like slow way the fuck down. so when, cause they are, they're so, they're raised on fast and furious and get it out and get it done, you know, and, and, and it's, don't let anyone, anyone know about it. There's a shame to it too. And so I think that when they, they learn to experience their whole body as a, as an erotic thing.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 29:35

Right.

Yeah, sure.

Dr. Willow (: 29:50

you know, when they start to find that the inner creases of their elbows have sensation and the backs of their knees have sensation. my God, if you put your hand right up my ass crack, whoa, there's a lot of sensation right there. So they can start to, ⁓ experience longer and slower, ⁓ pleasure. And that then allows them to, you know, approach a woman in a different way or approach a partner in a different way, you know, approach.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 29:55

Mm.

you

Dr. Willow (: 30:20

them with, there's, feel like because of the slowness and the presence that's brought in, there's more reverence, you know, instead of like, let me just bang it out with this thing, this person that's in front of me. And, you know, when we start to do base work with men, when we start to go in amily, it's like, that really opens up a whole new world of potential for them because they're not used to being penetrated.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 30:24

Hmmmm

Leah (: 30:26

Mmm.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 30:28

Right?

Right.

Dr. Willow (: 30:46

And so once they have that experience of penetration, then they have a whole different relationship to what it means to penetrate somebody. And that is a game changer for them. Leah, I know you have so much more to say.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 30:53

Sure. Yeah.

Leah (: 31:00

Yeah.

I mean, I think what's so.

wonderful that we need to get the word out is that men can be multi-orgasmic. They can have full body orgasms. And the key is understanding that ejaculation and orgasm are two separate physiological things. So we need to, if you can learn by slowing things down and learning some techniques that you can separate your ejaculation from your orgasm, then you can learn how to have non-ejaculatory orgasms. And just like what you were mentioning

Susan Taylor, MA (: 31:18

Hmm.

Leah (: 31:34

Susan about if you go looking for a cervical orgasm expecting it to feel like a clitoral orgasm you will miss the boat. Same thing is true for men if you go looking for a non-ejaculatory orgasm to feel like an ejaculation you're gonna miss the boat. There are subtle energies and different pleasure experiences that you start to uncover.

when you have the discipline to learn how to surf high levels of arousal without going over the ejaculation waterfall. So it takes studying your arousal in order to know where is my...

Susan Taylor, MA (: 32:06

Right.

Leah (: 32:15

point of no return that I'm going to ejaculate versus the feeling I could come soon. So you have to be, you know, playing self-pleasuring and then going through pleasure experiences with a partner to really track the nuances of what you need in order to come a little bit away from the waterfall.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 32:31

Hmm.

Yeah.

Leah (: 32:36

So

what ends up being so satisfying, and this is kind of like edging, you build the fire, you get to a high level of arousal, and then we call it the yin tide. You have a moment of stillness. You allow that energy that you've been cultivating and building to now go in you by taking a pause so that you're harvesting that life force energy that actually creates life if you're going to spend it in an ejaculation. And instead of it creating a generation, you're creating regeneration in you.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 32:47

Hmm.

Leah (: 33:06

So all that sped up sexual energy, you use breathing techniques to bring it back to the glands, the organs, the chakras, the things that will make you younger.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 33:07

you

Leah (: 33:17

And what men realize, and this is especially important when they start to get to mid-age and their testosterone levels are dropping, is they go, oh my God, my refractory periods are shorter. I'm having more volunteer erections. I'm having harder erections. I'm starting to feel like a 25-year-old again, and I'm 50. So I really believe that this is the fountain of youth. If men can study the...

potential of being a sexual man because this is shit your daddy didn't know. And men can quadruple the length and the power of every single ejaculation if they breathed differently and if they were willing to make sound. So there's very simple techniques that can transform a man's experience of his sexuality and himself and in so doing his ability to be awesome at connection and intimacy, which

Susan Taylor, MA (: 33:44

Yeah.

Yeah.

Leah (: 34:13

what most Volvo owners crave. my god, it takes so many incredible turns.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 34:18

Yeah.

Leah (: 34:21

And then the other thing I want to mention, because I think it gives so much hope out there, so many men suffer from what they would call premature ejaculation, or they feel like they come too soon. And when you start to learn some of these techniques that are thousands of years old that really work, you can easily correct and have more ejaculatory control and have more ejaculatory choice with something as simple as pressure points.

changing your breathing pattern. It's been one of the most rewarding parts of my career so far is to work with men who have felt hopeless around dating, who feel like a failure in their marriages, who feel inadequate and start to avoid intimacy because they're embarrassed that they don't have control over this.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 35:07

Yeah.

And would love to hear from you, Dr. Willow, but I just wanna throw this in there. I think that the ejaculatory pathway is so ingrained. It's just what most men know that it can be very, first of all, sort of a challenging thing, I think, for a lot of men to wrap their hat around because they don't yet know what's on the other side of taking on a practice. And I think you just spoke to it really beautifully, all the men listening. That's what's there for you if you take this on as a practice. But I do feel like it can be a challenging

There's just sort of a dependency. And I've even heard men say this themselves, there's sort of an addiction to the ejaculation. Like you gotta have it, you need it. And so yeah, let's just talk about that for a minute and how a man would work without it, how you might work with a man who's in that space.

Dr. Willow (: 35:47

What's this?

You know, it's

very similar to a woman having, like being addicted to her vibrator and addicted to clitoral orgasms. It's that same like peak and valley. Like this is the orgasm I'm used to. This is what I know an orgasm to be when the ejaculation comes out.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 36:02

Yeah. Yeah, the easy path.

Dr. Willow (: 36:10

that means I'm complete, I have had an orgasm. so, you know, little boys get erections, they get hard ons, but they haven't gone through puberty yet, so they don't have ejaculation, you know? So they are definitely two physiologically different functions. it just takes, it takes devotion, it takes practice, it takes learning how to elongate your arousal scale, it takes learning how to sound. Can't tell you how many men just...

Susan Taylor, MA (: 36:13

Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 36:39

don't sound, they don't make sound. They hold their breath, they don't make sound. And we've got a whole program on this actually, which teaches all the breath technique, all the sounding technique. It's called Last 10 Times Longer, and it's really a great program that men can go through and they can start to practice right away with their partners.

Leah (: 36:40

They hold their breath, yeah.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 36:42

⁓ Don't hold breath.

⁓

Okay, so now.

Great, yeah, when we wrap up,

we'll get the links on that for everybody, because that'd be great for people. Or you want to share it right now. Where can people find this last 10 times longer?

Dr. Willow (: 37:05

Yeah, yeah.

They can

find it on our website, sexreimagined.com, under courses.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 37:12

Okay, awesome.

Leah (: 37:13

Yeah,

and I would just say that also, it is you have to dedicate going through the learning phase. And the learning phase is there's a stage in learning that's called conscious incompetence. That's the hardest stage. You know you're not good at it. And that can be.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 37:23

Mm.

Yeah. You gotta be willing to suck.

Leah (: 37:36

That can be frustrating.

You're gonna try some of these things. You're gonna fail a couple times. You're gonna have an ejaculation that's a little anticlimactic. You just don't...

Take it very seriously. And also, you are fighting against your biology. This is the hardest part. Your biology is wired to help you create the species. It doesn't know you are masturbating into an old sock or tissue. So you have to realize that this is counterintuitive to the way your biology is wired, because your biology is invested in you ejaculating.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 37:51

Hmm.

Right.

Leah (: 38:11

So you have to realize that you're not a victim of your biology. You need to now rely on human spirit. And that is where you have the intention and the willpower to go, whoa, my sexual energy is getting too hot right here. This is where we take the pause period and we increase intimacy by opening our eyes.

slowing down the friction, slowing down our breath, breathing together, bringing your hearts together and feeling the juiciness of your heart till you cool and gain some control. And then you can start all that fire and all that movement. But you have to realize that the hard part is your biology. But I'll tell you this, I've never met a man.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 38:48

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah.

Leah (: 38:55

who hasn't gone through the crunchy side of the learning process to mastery, who has ever said, I think I'll go back to the way it was. Every single man who conquers this is like, there's more pleasure here than I ever thought. This is so much more satisfying. I'm so much more productive in every sector of my life because I'm not squandering my life force energy with all this.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 39:03

I don't know.

Hell yeah.

Leah (: 39:21

ejaculatory experience. And I might add that every ejaculation has 200 to 300 million sperm per load. That is massive amounts of life force energy. It only takes one to get someone pregnant. It's kind of overkill. So if you imagine not squandering all that life force, again, the benefit of it recharging you

you'll feel different. So you have to look for some of these markers so that you can measure the benefits. Each time you are successful, you need to study, how does this change how I feel energetically? What am I getting done? Am I more present with my kids? Am I more romantic with my partner? Am I more creative at work? These all have an accumulative effect. So you'll really see how it changes the whole game. Yeah.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 39:48

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Willow (: 40:12

Everything. Yeah.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 40:13

Yeah,

yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more. And I just, love this conversation and really hope that any men listening out there really tune into this and perhaps get curious, take it to heart. Cause it's such a game changer and it's a game changer for if you are partnered with a female, it's a game changer for her as well because.

Leah (: 40:22

Yeah, take it to heart.

Yeah.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 40:32

The female energy takes, the energy takes longer to warm up, longer to get aroused, and if you're really able to be more present and last longer and you have some skills, some intimacy skills, I mean, that's just hot. Like, she's gonna wanna fuck your brains out, like, every day.

Leah (: 40:45

Well, I

also might add there's a very interesting subconscious healing that happens because almost every woman has had experiences where she felt used, abused, and misused by men due to all the things. So when she is with a partner who doesn't ejaculate every time they have sex,

Susan Taylor, MA (: 40:57

Mm, totally.

Leah (: 41:12

There's something healing that happens because deep down she'll start to realize, wow, he's making love to me just for the sake to make love to me, not to get off on me. And so for people to understand, women, because we take people physically into our body, into the most psychic part of our body, we are picking up on various nuanced energy from that person, including their tension, their stress, the shitty experience they had at work that night, just so he can get a good night's sleep.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 41:17

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yep.

Leah (: 41:42

because wouldn't it be great to come? So that unconsciousness gets into this receptacle called a woman's body and then we wonder why after a while we're not interested in sex so much with you anymore. There's a certain unconsciousness that comes with sex that men could with just one thought form before they penetrate us.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 41:57

Exactly.

Yeah.

Leah (: 42:05

turn all of that around, whether he ejaculates or not. And that thought form is, when I penetrate her, may she feel beautiful, may she feel radiant, may she feel alive, and may she feel like a goddess, may she feel peace, may she feel belonging, name it, may she be patient. You know, like, you can bring something through that penetration that is conscious, that actually changes the actual sexual awakening of that woman's

Dr. Willow (: 42:06

change everything.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 42:07

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 42:23

You

Susan Taylor, MA (: 42:23

You

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Leah (: 42:34

experience.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 42:35

Yeah, that is so well said. Dr. Willow, do you wanna chime in on that? And I do have one more question on this topic, but do you wanna chime in? Okay, so in this dynamic where let's say a man is taking on this practice and learning how to ride his arousal wave and maybe have more choice over his ejaculation, what can his female partner do or what should she not do to help support this?

Dr. Willow (: 42:41

I think go ahead with your next question.

Leah (: 43:00

OK,

I got to take this one because I feel very strongly about it. The other side to women being with a partner who practices ejaculatory choice is sometimes she's offended that he's not coming. And she internalizes it as, you don't think I'm attractive. Why don't you ejaculate? There's something wrong with you. Or is there something wrong with me? And it bothers her.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 43:15

Hmm. Yeah.

Leah (: 43:29

And a lot of women hide behind a man's orgasm, I should say a man's, in this case, ejaculation, so that she feels successful as a lover, because it's not always easy for us to reach climax. So if I can make my lover come, I'm still sexually powerful and successful. If I don't have control over your coming, then that gives me a fear of perhaps inadequacy.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 43:38

Mm-hmm.

Leah (: 43:54

And so this is where we can sometimes manipulate men accidentally by having control of their sexual response because there's an ego hit we get. So we have to be willing to give men their sexual power back. Baby, I want you to make the wisest choices for you sexually.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 43:59

Hmm.

Leah (: 44:15

I want you to trust your body and to discover the benefits of when you want to ejaculate versus when you don't want to ejaculate. And I commit to not pulling that on you.

I want you to be as powerful as you can be. And I'm in service to that. you're not, you know, and let's face it, when a man does ejaculate inside of us, it is hot. There is something that is so delicious about that for many of us that we crave that, we want that. We also believe that we're not saying men should never ejaculate.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 44:43

Yeah.

Leah (: 44:50

We believe it's important for men to ejaculate occasionally. It's important for the prostate, number one. It also creates a lot of beautiful synergy and connection between the two partners, but to have choice brings so much more range. to review your question, what not to do, don't pull or manipulate his sexual energy for your own ego. Empower him to make wise choices with his sexual energy.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 45:05

Yeah.

Yeah, and I think sometimes too, what you said is so right on the money and that was a good pun in there, I'm not gonna go there, but I think a lot of women, don't realize how powerful our pussies are too, that we can literally pull that.

Leah (: 45:34

Good point.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 45:36

pull that ejaculation right out of a man. And so, you know, one the things I know that I've done with this practice is sometimes, making sure that maybe I'm moving a little bit less or not squeezing with my vaginal muscles, like really trying to relax more and slow down and welcoming breaks, welcoming, slowing down. And that allows my partner to know that, yeah, like we're on, that we are working on this together, not just him alone.

Dr. Willow (: 46:00

Yeah,

Leah (: 46:00

Totally.

Dr. Willow (: 46:01

there's a certain level of attunement that a woman needs to have in order to support her partner in becoming a master at these non-ejaculatory multiple orgasm pathways in their body. And so that requires a woman being attuned to her own body as well, which many of us aren't. Let's be honest. So many of us are not attuning to our own pleasure and our own.

breath and our own sounding. once we start to, ⁓ that's why self practice, you know, self cultivation, we call it endowsing. We don't call it masturbation. call it self cultivation because you're really cultivating your deepest part of yourself, your truest essence. You're cultivating your sexual energy, which is what we are all born from, what we all come from. And so when you're cultivating that on your own as a woman or as a man or any gender,

Susan Taylor, MA (: 46:47

Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 46:54

You are learning how to attune to the ebb and flow of energy in your body, to the rise and fall of arousal as it comes, to the places inside of you where your brain blocks your sexual energy, to the places inside of you where your brain opens up your sexual energy. Your brain is actually the most important sexual organ in your body. So how is your brain and your body being in a union with each other? And once you have like,

Susan Taylor, MA (: 47:08

you

Dr. Willow (: 47:23

a good sense of that and a good roadmap inside of your own body, then you can bring it to partnership. And then you can support your partner in having cervical orgasms, in having multiple orgasms as a penis owner, in having anal orgasms, you know, it's like you then bring a certain sense of knowing.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 47:36

Hmm.

Dr. Willow (: 47:44

Like I already know what my partner's thinking or feeling before they say it. And a lot of times it eliminates this whole verbiage that is part of communication. And so if you've ever been with a lover where it's like, how do we just look at each other and we just know, we don't have to talk. It's so blissful. those are the kinds of.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 47:46

you

Yeah, caught in it.

No.

Dr. Willow (: 48:08

experiences that you, you can co-create even if you've been in a long term relationship or, or a relationship where you're like, ah, I really like this person, but I don't love them. You know, you still, you can play with energy. So if we start to take the human-ness away from it all, if we start to take our egos out of the equation and realize that we're just playing with energy here, then it becomes a dance of, of expansion and contraction.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 48:37

I love that, so beautiful.

Leah (: 48:37

I love that

she brought up energy because this is one of the nuances. think part of the fear is, my God, she's going to be so close to climax and I'm going to ruin it.

Because I'm going to go before she does. there's anxiety arises. And I think women also feel like that too. Like, god damn it, I was so close and he just ruined it. So here's where if we can both be energetically sensitive, if he's at a place of, my god, I'm going to come too soon, and if he has to pull out, that's OK. Capitalize on, he is so turned on by me. He can.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 48:48

Hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 48:51

or trying to

hold out. Yeah.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 48:59

Yeah.

Leah (: 49:15

almost can't control it. Get off on his desire. Absorb that heightened sense of arousal in him and drink that as if it's yours. Allow that to amplify your own excitement. And then, so let's say he pulls out. So he pulls out to get a little more control to eliminate the friction. Now just hover. Bring your cock and hover it right over her clitoris.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 49:17

Ha ha!

Yeah.

Mmm.

Mmm.

Leah (: 49:43

hover and stroke up and down, even if you're not touching her vulva, you can kind of just move your desire and your sexual energy that's so excited, that's at such a peak place. You're giving yourself the space because you're not touching so much friction, but you're still pouring that desire that you're starting to control. It can keep amping her up. So it doesn't have to disrupt the other person's climb.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 50:02

Hmm.

Hmm.

Leah (: 50:12

We just have to be strategic on how we take that desire and keep the energy flowing. And that way, things can amplify but also de-accelerate when needed.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 50:18

⁓ I love that.

Yeah,

and doesn't have to be the whole end of the whole event just because he pulled out and that's so hot I think I'm gonna have an orgasm just from you're describing that so sexy. Well, one more question for you before we wrap up for today. What would you say is the number one mistake people make during sex?

Leah (: 50:29

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. I'm almost out of control. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 50:36

I'm

Leah (: 50:47

Ooh.

Dr. Willow (: 50:47

I,

I, well, this kind of piggybacks on what we were just talking about, which is like, feel like we're making orgasm the end goal and we're, reaching for it. We're trying to attain it. We're working toward it. There's so much young efforting toward the orgasm that, you know, it can either short circuit the whole thing and an orgasm doesn't happen and there's disappointment or,

Susan Taylor, MA (: 50:54

Mm.

Dr. Willow (: 51:11

It takes away from being in the moment of really elongating pleasure and experiencing the capacity that your body actually has, because there's all this myopic focus on getting to the end, getting to the orgasm. And so I've often, you

Susan Taylor, MA (: 51:26

Yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 51:31

trained people to, instead of trying and going and getting it, see if you can just allow it to come to you. So be in a more receptive place with orgasmic energy. And also, it doesn't have to feel like the clitoral orgasm that you're so used to, or it doesn't have to feel like the ejaculatory orgasm that you're so used to. Can you experience waves of orgasmic?

Susan Taylor, MA (: 51:37

Hmm.

Dr. Willow (: 51:54

pleasure move through your body. And this is when creas start to open up in people's bodies and these like earthquakes of energy and these little shimmers and shakes that feel so fucking amazing. And those actual shimmers and shakes that start to happen through your body are actually breaking down and breaking through.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 51:55

Yes.

Dr. Willow (: 52:14

barriers to pleasure. So you could think about it like a kink in a hose and it's opening up and all of a sudden this rush of energy is flowing through your meridians and flowing through your chakras and boom you get these these involuntary kind of waves of movement in your body. So really you know instead of going out and getting just see if you can roll it back and and just receive and open and let the orgasm come to you.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 52:40

you

Dr. Willow (: 52:43

in the way that it wants to come to you in the moment. That's how we move ourselves into like two and a half hour, three and a half hours, seven and a half hour lovemaking sessions, you know, ⁓ rather than five minutes.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 52:50

Yeah.

Yeah.

Leah (: 52:58

Yeah,

I do think that the number one mistake that people make with sex is they take it too seriously. They get too goal oriented, like Willow says, it's all about the orgasm. And then we are judging each other for either passing or failing. then stress, then sex becomes stressful. And we then feel like we're a failure or we feel inadequate. We don't have matched libido's all this pain starts to enter the equation and we feel broken.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 53:12

Yeah.

Leah (: 53:27

and we worry about the security of our partnership and it just it creates so much grief and strife but sex should be the playground for adults. This is the place where we can be really playful. So my advice is don't take sex so seriously and if you make a goal

The only goal should be about love. How much love can you feel? And if you can keep it about love, the orgasms will follow. And there's so many ways to feel satisfied by the closest, the connection, the communion, the intimacy that comes from bringing your bodies together that it's okay if there's not an orgasm every time you're sexual. There's not a problem. And I think people create a lot of undue stress in their sex life, which then

Susan Taylor, MA (: 53:56

Sir.

Leah (: 54:17

causes them to avoid it because they're not playful and they get stuck in their judgments. And when we start judging our experience or our partner or we self-criticize,

Susan Taylor, MA (: 54:23

Yes.

Leah (: 54:29

we're headed down the wrong direction. So when you notice a judgment come in to how you're experiencing your sex, yourself or your partner, get curious instead. Allow curiosity to provide you with different questions that aren't harmful the way judgments can be, because those keep you stuck.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 54:40

Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, beautifully said. Well, I want to thank both of you so much for being my guests today on the Sex Talk FA, and I want to give you an opportunity here to share with our listeners how they can connect with you, or if you have any events or offerings you'd like to share with our listeners today. Go ahead and let us all know.

Dr. Willow (: 55:05

Well, we have a really fun event coming up at the end of the year in October. We're taking a group of women to Greece. We're doing a sacred sexuality pilgrimage. We're going to go to the sacred sites and the temples of Greece where the goddess walked the earth and we're going to ignite. Yes. And we're going to ignite that within the participants of that retreat. It's going to be really powerful.

Leah (: 55:22

Yeah, specifically the island of Crete.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 55:25

that's hot.

Dr. Willow (: 55:33

you can also find us at the sex reimagined podcast. Come tune in with us. We've got lots of amazing interviews and content and guests over there. Susan is one of them. And, ⁓ and then we've, you can find us at sex reimagine.com. You can find us on Instagram, on tick tock, on YouTube. ⁓ you can find me at drwillowbrown.com and Leah at more love works.com.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 55:58

Awesome, I will drop all those in the show notes and just for listeners here Spell your sex reimagined because I think it's just SX Right. It's not SES. it is SES. Okay. Okay good. Just making sure okay good. So it is spelled out fully. Okay, great

Dr. Willow (: 56:07

It's S-E-X, yeah.

Leah (: 56:12

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Willow (: 56:14

We

take out the E sometimes for marketing purposes, because algorithms don't like sex for some reason. I don't know why.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 56:16

Totally understood. Yeah, you get filtered out and shadow band. I Yeah, they don't like the word pleasure either. I have to edit that one out

Leah (: 56:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for emails. Yeah.

I...

I... I...

We

love to give your audience a free gift also. So we have a series of free trainings. If you go to sexfreeimagine.com slash adventure, you can pick your own sex free imagine adventure. And we've got three different categories. You can choose which one you want for free to learn anything from overcoming sexual obstacles to better communication to tutorials around techniques for sexual healing.

Susan Taylor, MA (: 56:28

Yes, please.

Fabulous, so sexreimagine.com forward slash adventure. Fabulous gift, thank you so much for offering that to my community and thank you so much for being my guest today on the Sex Talk Cafe.

Leah (: 57:00

adventure.

Dr. Willow (: 57:00

adventure.

Leah (: 57:08

Lovely to be with you, Susan. Thanks for having us.